tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11679714.post7046898695167192187..comments2024-03-28T07:04:18.806-04:00Comments on Half an Hour: To The School or Classroom 2.0 AdvocatesStephen Downeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06140591903467372209noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11679714.post-16540343927390934902007-07-22T12:56:00.000-04:002007-07-22T12:56:00.000-04:00Hey Stephen,Doug Noon at http://borderland.norther...Hey Stephen,<BR/><BR/>Doug Noon at http://borderland.northernattitude.org pointed me to your post ... of course, I met your work when I was studying the logical fallacies for the GRE. :)<BR/><BR/>Your student work idea reminds me of the project at St. Martin De Porres High school in Cleveland. http://www.stmartindeporreshs.org/<BR/>It is a Cristo Ray model school.<BR/><BR/>Check out what they are doing. Its a new program and is receiving accolades in the community.<BR/><BR/>cheers,<BR/>NewmanNewmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05963097383859128368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11679714.post-7332972000580014742007-04-04T09:33:00.000-04:002007-04-04T09:33:00.000-04:00Are you suggesting that students take co-op positi...<I>Are you suggesting that students take co-op positions in place of traditional education or in addition to some kind of supplementary education?</I><BR/><BR/>I think of them less as 'positions' (which imply some sort of employer-job type of relationship) and more as 'projects' (which suggests something they do because it interests them).<BR/><BR/>And yes, in the long term, this approach should <I>replace</I> traditional learning (because sitting in a room of 30 people waiting while the teacher tries to impose order is really unproductive).<BR/><BR/><I>Would students receive pay?</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe. If they did something useful. Probably, like the rest of us, they would do some things that paid them money and some things that pay in experience, reputation or sheer joy.<BR/><BR/><I>Who would supervise them? </I><BR/><BR/>It depends. For many things, the children - especially the older ones - can work without supervision.<BR/><BR/>That said, any adult in the same environment has at least <I>some</I> responsibility to watch out for the welfare of the children (note that I said it this way, rather than 'supervises', which connotes an environment of 'telling them what to do', which I don't want at all). In other cases, mentors and guides will pay such a role. In the case of younger children, who will more frequently do their projects in groups, specially employed matrons and coaches will assume the role.<BR/><BR/><I>In other cases, such as I also wonder why bagging groceries is such a bad thing?</I><BR/><BR/>Because it is basically unproductive labour performed in a coerciove work environment for a minimum wage. It offers no mental stimulation and produces almost nothing in the way of new learning. It is, no matter what age the employee, a complete waste of time.<BR/><BR/>I would also comment on how we've developed an industrial grocery system - buy food in bags, put them in car, take them home, store then in fridge or freezer - which has basically destroyed the much more efficient concept of a local market, but that would be to digress.<BR/><BR/><I>The HS students I know are not ready for the kind of responsibility you suggest.</I><BR/><BR/>Because, since the days they were in kindergarten, they were told what to do any any sort of self-direction they demonstrated was positively beaten out of them.<BR/><BR/>Expect students to behave like subhumans or drones, and that's how they'll behave.<BR/><BR/>I have known many high school students who are perfectly capable of assuming this sort of responsibility - I see it outside school hours, online and off - and they are blocked by attitudes such as this.<BR/><BR/><I>They are more interested in making money to pay for clothing, eating out, saving for college and entertainment.</I><BR/><BR/>That could be because that's the only message they have ever received - from parents, from school, and especially from media.<BR/><BR/>Again - things don't magically happen. You get <I>out</I> of your younger generation whatever you put <I>in</I>. If we want them to be knowledgeable, capable, responsible, empowered - then these are the things we need to make possible and to expect of them in their childhood.Stephen Downeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06140591903467372209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11679714.post-43629429269084435562007-04-03T22:51:00.000-04:002007-04-03T22:51:00.000-04:00I'm Kathy, a kindergarten teacher from Georgia, US...I'm Kathy, a kindergarten teacher from Georgia, USA. Your post was pointed out on a webcast this evening. I would like to comment on the later half of your post regarding jobs for students. Are you suggesting that students take co-op positions in place of traditional education or in addition to some kind of supplementary education? Would students receive pay? Who would supervise them? I also wonder why bagging groceries is such a bad thing? The HS students I know are not ready for the kind of responsibility you suggest. They are more interested in making money to pay for clothing, eating out, saving for college and entertainment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11679714.post-22804027531740208862007-04-03T09:25:00.000-04:002007-04-03T09:25:00.000-04:00Nathan pointed me to your blog.. I need some time ...Nathan pointed me to your blog.. I need some time to think about all of this but in the meantime there is one thing I think needs to be part of the equation.<BR/>As I was reading, having read the original questions yesterday) I began to formulate my thoughts and then something struck me..<BR/>In all of the talk I have not "heard" anyone ask why we should keep the assembly line approach to grades...that is should all 6 year olds be in first grade or 12/13 year olds in 8th?<BR/> I will expand more on this later either on my blog or at Classroom 2.0 but thougt I would t least raise the question.<BR/>Thanks for the post.Barbara Barreda K-8 Administrator, Tech integration advocate, Going 1:1 with netbookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535523713482852906noreply@blogger.com